Honda CVT For Sale

Log in | New account Home Ask Honest John Reviews Best Deals Advice Good Garages News Back Room Insurance Shop Car by Car Reviews The HJ Road Test Videos Top 10 Cars Prices and Specs The Honest John Road Test Home » Road Tests » Honda » Honda Jazz and CVT-7 Honda Jazz and CVT-7 Thu, 05 Sep 2002 Main Report Prices/Specifications Engine/Transmission Dimensions Performance First, the original road test, from January 2002. Then an update about the new CVT-7 automatic. So if you’ve read the road test before, skip straight to CVT-7. The Honda Jazz is Japanese Car of the Year. It is the best selling car in Japan with 20,000 finding new owners every month and 36,000 on the waiting list. Its interior puts it ahead of the entire crop of new small cars. It beats everything else on versatility, economy, specification and price. Just like the Model T Ford in 1909 and the Mini in 1959, it's the right car at the right time. Now there’s a new automatic version called the CVT-7. So how did Honda move the goal-posts and wrong-foot everyone else? The first thing they did was shift the petrol tank. Instead of putting it under the back seats, they put it under the front seats. That enabled them to scoop much more interior space out of the floorpan. And, with an average five year model cycle it isn't something anyone else can catch up with until they design their next car from scratch. Honda didn’t stop there. They also thought very hard about exactly how they were going to use all that space, and came up with a concept so clever they call it 'Magic Seats'. Where with an ordinary car you can break your fingernails and give yourself a hernia rearranging the seats to carry something, with the Jazz all you do is press a button on the front seat back, then flop down the rear seat, headrest and all, in one simple movement. Flop down both seats and you create a cavern in the back with a perfectly flat floor. But that's only the start because Honda has another trick up its sleeve. Lift the rear seat squabs and you create an entirely different type of luggage space, bang in the centre of the car. Somewhere to put something tall and awkward, like a house-plant, or a bicycle, or a wolfhound. To fold it back again, just pull out the legs and drop it down. Either side or both sides. It's that easy. More to the point, its exactly what I want and what you want. With the Magic Seat system, Honda has left every other manufacturer scratching their heads. As if that wasn't enough, Honda has also come up with an entirely new type of engine for the car. Called i-DSI, it uses two valves and two spark plugs per cylinder to provide a combination of low speed torque, performance and economy that no one else can match either. Just look at the figures: zero to sixty in 11.7 seconds, top speed 106 mph and a combined economy figure of 49.6mpg. Even the urban figure is 41mpg and on a run nearly 60mpg is possible. Naturally enough, this gives the car a low CO2 output of 134g/km which will keep it in the low VED class of £100 pa for years to come, and also makes it a very sensible choice for company car drivers. On top of that, insurance is in a rock bottom Group 3E. And, oh yes, the starter price is just £8,995 on the road with a three year 80,000 mile warranty. For that sort of money, Ford hopes to get you into a 5-door Fiesta with a 1.3 litre engine from the 1970's. So what's this paragon of virtues like to drive? The seats are comfortable. It has a snicky, neat and positive gearshift. There are useful trays, cubbies and cupholders everywhere to hold all your bits and pieces. The steering is light without being too light. The ride is a bit stiff. The gearing is a tad short for the motorway. And the handling is, to use a weaselly word, "assured". Just don't expect bagfuls of cornering fun. Okay, if it was a hoot to drive, then every other manufacturer would have no choice but to wander off into the sunset and shoot themselves. To my mind the new VW Polo 1.2 runs away with the 'fun fun fun' accolade. But the Jazz plays a different tune. It does the job. It's neat, tidy and safe. (Honda is expecting a four start NCAP crash safety score, by the way.) But it's no boy racer. And to most people on our traffic-clogged, Gatso infested roads, that's no problem at all. The only difficulty Honda is going to have will be supplying enough cars to meet the demand. The CVT-7 It was demand in Japan that delayed UK supplies of the 7-ratio CVT-7 automatic. And, in my view, this makes the car. It’s a CVT, which means ‘continuously variable transmission’. But unlike some other manufacturers, Honda has always been good at these and offered a CVT option on the old shape Civic. The CVT-7 takes it all a step further. You can drive the car in fully automatic ‘D’ mode. You can drive it in ‘D’ Sport, which sharpens its reactions. And that’s what most drivers will do around town. But out of town and on the motorway you’ve got the option of pressing a button on the steering wheel to activate two pushbutton self-selectors. These allow you to choose the ratio you want to be in, a bit like Michael Schumacher chooses the ratios in his F1 Ferrari. And the point of seven selectable ratios is they allow you to fine-tune your engine revs and speed. For example, on the motorway, 6th gives you about 19mph per 1,000 rpm, which might be just enough to speed up to overtake something without resorting to a frenetic full automatic kickdown. Afterwards, push the + button and you’re back up to 7th which slurs a bit but can give you around 25mph per 1,000 rpm and good economy on a feathered throttle. Out in the country, selecting ratios is useful for engine braking while descending hills, and the beauty of this is you can easily find the ideal ratio rather than a compromise. It all works incredibly easily and incredibly well. You can switch the buttons on or off by means of a steering wheel button on the right. Selecting ‘D’ from ‘S’ or ‘S’ from ‘D’ switches off the pushbuttons. And selecting ‘N’ at the traffic lights switches them off as well, but if you sit with the brakes on you stay in 1st gear. You can’t even make mistakes, because if you choose the wrong gear or slow down, the box’s electronics choose the right gear for you. The CVT-7 is well worth the extra £900, either for the fun of better car control, or because you need an automatic. Honest John's Car Buying Advice Get the low-down on how to buy and sell cars the hassle-free way Related News & Road Tests Review: Honda Jazz 2001 Clever interior redefined the small car. Very reliable first 3 - 4 years. Review: Honda Jazz 2008 Much prettier with more room and more performance than original Jazz, more fun to drive. Excellent versatility. CVT-7 returned for 2011, replacing i-SHIFT. News: Double Discount on New Honda Jazz UK Car Broker is offering savings over and above the standard £750 dealer bonus on the Honda jazz. Road Test: Honda New Jazz Preview Test Now with driving impressions embargoed until 25-8-08 The new Jazz goes on sale in the UK in October. It's slightly bigger, much prettier,... • Terms and Conditions • Advertise on this site • Contact Honest John || The Temple of VTEC Asia Special Focus on the Multimatic Transmission The new 2001-Civic is now common knowledge. Hopefully TOVA readers are now fully aware of the various technologies that Honda introduced to this generation as well as the new model line-up. Of particular significance is the heavy use of Honda's wonder-CVT transmission the Multimatic. This transmission has in fact even replaced the standard 5-speed manual in the top of the line Civic, ie the Civic RS now comes with either a 4spd automatic (with 4WD) or the Multimatic. So what is so great about the Multimatic transmission that Honda now uses it in their top Civic models ? In my D15B article, I have elaborated on its superiority over the standard 4AT transmissions and how, in certain conditions, it can even outperform the 5MT. Nevertheless, more technical minded readers will want to know more details about how Multimatic actually works and the new innovations Honda made to enable it to handle so much power so well. The Multimatic was first introduced by Honda late in 1995 when the EK generation of Civics were introduced. The only models to really benefit from Multimatic then were the 1.5l SOHC EK3s (both with and without the 3-stage VTEC engine). Honda wrote a detailed article explaining the technological advances they made to the Multimatic transmission then. In view of the importance of Multimatic in the current 2001 Civic generation, TOVA have translated that article and re-published it here. As usual, where we feel we have useful information to add, they will be in RED-ITALIC font. Original article's translation : Kaz Article Editor and additional informations : WongKN October 2000, Temple of VTEC Asia The following translation was made without permission from the Honda of Japan's web-site. Honda's Multimatic Technology Page Originally Published 1995/07/05 The Goal of Developing the Honda Multimatic No matter how well the engine performs, if that power is not transmitted properly, you cannot expect desirable results. In that line of thought, one of the key factors to total power output is the transmission. So we ask - what is the ideal transmission? Currently, the automotive society is seeing an increase of automatic transmissions every year. As more automobiles with automatic transmissions become available, less skill be required for one to operate a vehicle. In other words, anyone will be able to enjoy driving and extract the full potential of the vehicle without difficulty. Because of this, the importance of the automatic transmission will only grow. Keeping this in mind, Honda has been working on a proprietary, step-less shifting mechanism. It is but the natural progression from first making shifts smoother, to putting in more gears to make more gradual shifts -- all the way to making the shifts step-less. Compared to standard torque converters, there is less power lost, and more of the engine's power is transmitted. The slight, yet uncomfortable "nudge" that is felt when shifting will no longer exist. Acceleration will be smooth and optimal. Fuel economy will increase as well. All of these advantages can be reached with the use of a step-less transmission. While using the basic concept of the CVT, Honda was able to create the world's first mass-production, high-power, step-less transmission. While other such units previously existed, the Multimatic was far superior in quality, endurance, power output, cost, etc. Using proprietary technology, we were able to create an automatic transmission that is controllable and feels just like an automatic. The plan was to mate it to the 3-stage VTEC engine, and extract the engine's excellent performance. This was then done with the EK3 Civic, the 3-door Civic Ri and VTi and the 4-door Civic Ferio Mi and Vi. The Ri/Mi uses the standard 105ps SOHC D15B while the VTi/Vi uses the now famous 130ps 3-stage VTEC D15B. Honda Multimatic The Basic Mechanism of the Honda Multimatic The Honda Multimatic consists of an oil-pressure variable input (aka "driving") and output (aka "driven") pulley, and a metal belt that connects the two. With an oil-system clutch on the "driven" side, the Multimatic acts as an automatic transmission. The power output from the engine goes through: Front/Back Switch Mechanism -> Driving Pulley -> Metal Belt -> Driven Pulley -> Clutch. The two pulley widths, adjusted by oil pressure, react to the position of throttle, speed, and other conditions. For instance, when the accelerator is depressed, the driving pulley width increases. At the same time, the driven pulley width decreases - the two combining for a "lower gear" effect. By making such adjustments, we have full control over the entire gear range previously available to automatic transmissions. From LOW to OVERDRIVE - and everything in-between. In addition, the metal belt is highly flexible, and will happily accommodate the ever-changing width of the pulleys, and transfer power efficiently without any slippage. This difficult task of adjusting oil pressure, and adjusting to variable driving conditions is handled completely by the ECU, and allows the transmission to extract the maximum performance out of an engine - making this a revolutionary automotive transmission. Honda Multimatic Shifting Mechanism The Unique Features of the Honda Multimatic The Honda Multimatic does not use a torque converter, but uses a newly designed multi-layered clutch. Additionally, to obtain smooth acceleration, various proprietary equipment were added in order to make a step-less transmission with high reliability and durability. (1) Driven-Shaft-Placed Acceleration Clutch The Honda Multimatic differs from previously existing step-less transmissions is that the acceleration clutch is placed on the driven shaft. The primary reason we took this route was to control torque at the closest possible place to the axle, allowing for smooth acceleration. In addition, we were able to apply a modest creep* which most automatic transmission users have grown accustomed to. This gives the standard advantages of an automatic when parking, as well as starting from a dead-stop on hills. (*creep - you know, how your car with AT will sneak/creep forward unless you apply the brakes) Secondly, this allows for controlling the speed in all circumstances. In order to control speed, the pulley needs to be continually spinning. By placing the clutch on the driven pulley, the pulley can remain spinning even when the car is stopped. This means that in emergency situations or sudden deceleration, the transmission can quickly step down to LOW gear. Lastly, this set-up allows for the transmission to be towed. When the engine is stopped, the input from the tires is locked out by the final gear and the driven pulley. Clutch Placement Comparison (2) Proprietary Oil Pressure Control System The pulley width and speed control is handled by a high/low pressure regulator. The four-way valve releases oil pressure evenly to the pulleys. Additionally, the force that pinches the metal belt between the pulleys is also controlled by the lower pressure regulator. As a result, the two pulley pistons are of the same design - allowing for a more simple design, yet allowing high power output as needed. (3) Slim Design The Front/Reverse switching mechanism was placed on the driving shaft, while the acceleration clutch was placed on the driven shaft. Because of this opposing setup, the transmission is very compact, making it ideal for a FF layout. Additionally, the input shaft from the engine is inserted into the driving shaft, allowing for the number of bearings to be decreased - which ultimately means less power lost to friction. (4) Dual Flywheels We removed the torque converter, and instead sandwiched two flywheels - resulting in a dual-mass flywheel. Also, the harmonic resonance frequency was lowered to that of below idle - allowing us to shut out the unwanted vibrations often caused by the twisting force generated by the engine during torque rate changes. At the same time, this allows for a more direct connection to the engine, resulting in less slip-loss - which ultimately leads to higher fuel economy. (5) High-Performance Oil Pump The Honda Multimatic requires a high-pressure oil pump in order to operate the pulleys at optimum settings. Therefore, a highly efficient, low-friction oil pump unit was installed as a separate unit. This not only enhances the reliability of the transmission, but greatly reduces power loss and enhances both driving performance and fuel economy. (6) Newly Designed Metal Belt The power transfer belt was newly developed by the Dutch company Van Doorne's Transmissie. With careful testing, we were able to take the best of both the belt and the engine to make a superb engine with high output and a wide selection of gear ratios. Additionally, the belt proved to be extremely silent, due to its many hundreds of elements and the use of highly durable, yet thin metals. Metal Belt Diagram Full Electronic Control The transmission is under full electronic control in order to attain its goals of a smooth ride and excellent fuel economy. This is largely separated into 3 sections - Gear Ratio Control, Acceleration Control, and Side Pressure Control. (1) Gear Ratio Control Gear Ratio is controlled by a pre-set 3D map with car speed, throttle position, and ideal engine rpm as its 3 axis. The difference between current and ideal engine rpm on the chart is continuously fed back to the ECU. Using linear solenoids, the four-way valves controlling pulley width are activated. In order to prove useful in all situations, there are three 3D maps the user can select from. In E(conomy) mode, the upper power band is avoided, resulting in excellent fuel economy. In D(rive) mode, driving performance and fuel economy are evened out. Lastly, in S(port) mode, the user can redline the engine. The exact redline numbers are as follows: E - 4500rpm D - 5700rpm S - 6800rpm In addition, the standard "L" gear gate; and the "S" mode are available to use as engine brakes. A note about the quoted red-line figures. They seem to be for the regular 105ps SOHC D15B. For the 130ps 3-stage VTEC D15B used on the EK3 VTi and Vi, the 'red-lines' for the 3-modes (based on actual usage of the real thing) are 4500rpm, 6000rpm, and >7000rpm. Redline for the 3-stage D15B is 7200rpm and under sustained WOT, engine rpm will happily hit and sustain 7200rpm ! (for the VTEC sound fans, yes, this means you can maintain the 'VTEC song' for as long as you like). (2) Acceleration Control The acceleration clutch's power transfer amount is controlled via the clutch piston's oil pressure. Additionally, the amount of creep is also controlled here as well. The "smart" creep has two settings - one with the brakes on, and one with the brakes off. While the brake pedal is depressed, there is very little to no creep, while releasing the brake pedal will engage creep again. By dropping the creep level while the automobile is stopped, additional fuel efficiency is realized. (3) Side Pressure Control In addition to the standard step-less transmission's oil-pressure controlled layout, we considered the effects of torque on the pulleys and belt. By applying linear pressure, friction is lowered, and the oil pump does not have to work as hard. Both yield in high fuel efficiency and better endurance of the transmission. Merits of the Honda Multimatic From its unique design, the Honda Multimatic is superior to conventional automatic transmissions using torque converters. (1) Mobility By using the 3D map control pattern, the Multimatic has the ability to stay in the same power band if/when needed. An example of this is the ability to remain in the high-rpm power band from a standstill to high speed. Because of this, full-throttle acceleration is equivalent to that of a manual transmission. In addition, when traveling at high speeds, because of its ability to infinitely adjust gear ratios, the Multimatic has more passing ability than not only the manual transmission but the conventional automatic transmission using torque converters. With these advantages and the ability to still "shift" to "L" to use the engine brake, there is nothing but advantages. (2) Low Fuel Consumption Because the Multimatic allows the engine to remain in its most optimal power range, excellent fuel economy is obtained. Compared to conventional automatic transmissions using a torque converter, there is zero slip, which translates into efficiency. In addition, the low-friction design and the side pressure regulator both contribute to excellent fuel economy. (3) Smooth Acceleration Because the newly designed clutch is installed on the driven shaft, smooth acceleration is possible. With appropriate creep, starting on hills or parking in garages can be done with ease. The difference in "feel" between the Multimatic and a conventional automatic transmission using a torque converter is minimal. (4) Shock-Free "Shifting" With the infinitely adjustable gear ratios at its disposal, the nudging motion caused by shifting is no longer present. Drastic jolting during lower gear acceleration is no longer present as well, leading to a stress-free, smooth driving experience. (5) 3 Modes of Driving Normal city/freeway driving with "D," superior fuel economy with "E," and high-rpm power from "S." With the 3 modes of driving, you can select your car's behavior depending on your objectives, or situation you are in. Such precise control is only possible with the Honda Multimatic. Note : There were mentions of a "2" gear gate in the original article but I have never seen such a gate in the EK3s I have seen (all original JDM imported used from Japan) so I have edited those references out. However, I am not sure if this is available on the new 2001 ES/EU generation Civic. Drivability Comparison Chart A word about the comparison chart. In my opinion it doesn't show the true advantage Multimatic has over the standard 4AT transmission especially "on-the-move", ie acceleration from medium speeds (~ 50kph). Going WOT in any mode (E, D, or S) will cause Multimatic to use the highest possible engine rpm (>7000rpm for S) which delivers the optimum gear ratio for the highest possible acceleration from then onwards. This feature offers superior pick-up from 4AT and superior flexibility over 5MT during driving. Recently I also saw a Dynojet power chart for an EK3 Civic Ferio Vi. The standard 4AT mated to the 130ps SOHC-VTEC D15B (1991-1995 EG4 and EG8 Civic VTi) will dyno at around 92ps at the wheels. However the EK3's dyno chart I saw touched 100ps at the wheels, stock-standard. || LOGIN REGISTER NEWSLETTER Home NEWS REVIEWS PRODUCTS COMPARE CARS VIDEOS BUYING USED CARS NEW CARS MOTORSHOWS COMPETITIONS 6 ISSUES FOR £1 Search Car Reviews: You're in - Car Reviews: First Drives Honda Jazz CVT-7 Sometimes five gears just aren't enough... or six, even! Honda's taking a big step forward and giving us seven. It's the popular Jazz that's been chosen to demonstrate this high technology, the first of a new breed of Continuously Variable Transmissions. Auto Express Car Reviews By Chris ThorpAugust 2002 Rating: Sometimes five gears just aren't enough... or six, even! Honda's taking a big step forward and giving us seven. It's the popular Jazz that's been chosen to demonstrate this high technology, the first of a new breed of Continuously Variable Transmissions. Thanks to some clever engineering, the Jazz CVT-7 has a slick auto mode and a seven-speed manual override. We got behind the wheel to see what it's like. Once inside, you're faced with what appears to be a conventional auto, but the steering wheel holds the Jazz's trump card. In either 'Drive' or 'Sport' modes, the seven-speed manual box can be activated, with changes made via F1-style wheel-mounted buttons. So does it all work? In auto mode, the system sets the revs at their most effective point, wafting you along in one seemingly endless gear. The result is noisy, but there is none of the jerky changes that blight small autos, and the tall top ratio means improved motorway refinement over the manual car. In manual mode, you'll enjoy zipping up and down the seven tightly packed ratios. The system involves two pulleys connected by a steel belt, which transfer torque directly from the engine to the wheels. Ratios are created as the second pulley is adjusted hydraulically, delivering a continuously variable transmission - hence CVT. Performance is hardly blistering with a 12.3-second 0-60mph time, but you'll still get there sooner than you think thanks to the clever gearing. The great interior and dynamics of our Car of the Year are well documented, but there are no financial incentives to go for the CVT-7. Economy is good at 47.9mpg, as are the 139g/km emissions, but the manual Jazz is ahead in both areas. At ΂£12,195, our 1.4i-DSI SE Sport also costs ΂£900 more than the standard car. Yet this Honda makes sense if you spend a lot of time in town, or if you're only qualified to drive autos but want the control offered by a manual. For an alternative review of the latest Honda Jazz visit our sister site carbuyer.co.uk What Next COMPARE CAR LOANS COMPARE CAR INSURANCE For more breaking car news and reviews, subscribe to Auto Express magazine. We'll give you 6 issues for £1 and a free gift! < Previous Next > 0 Comment Be the first to comment on this article You need to register to post comments. Existing members can log in below to comment, otherwise click here to join. Email: Password: Sponsored Results Social Bookmarks Link to this article: For more details about purchasing this feature and/or images for editorial usage, please contact the Dennis Syndication team on pictures@dennis.co.uk Email a Friend Print this Pictures - Advertisement - Sponsored Results FIRST OPINION Autos are changing for the better, and CVT is the next evolution. This Honda offers fully automatic and F1-style manual shifts, and only a lack of refinement under acceleration lets the Jazz CVT-7 down. AT A GLANCE CVT available on Jazz SE and SE Sport, priced £11,195-£12,195 Wheel-mounted buttons allow manual selection of seven ratios Find Used Cars Find your Honda Jazz with our new used car search. £12260 - £9167 £9167 - £5167 Less than £5167 - Advertisement - Company Website | Media Information | Contact Us | Privacy Notice | Subs Info | Voucher Codes | SitemapOur Other Websites: The First Post | Custom PC | Evo | IT Pro | IT Pro India | MacUser | Men's Fitness | Micro Mart | PC Pro | bit-tech | Know Your Mobile | Octane | Expert Reviews | Channel Pro | Know Your Cell | Know Your Mobile India | iGizmo | Digital SLR Photography | Den of Geek | The Week | Computer Shopper | Dennis Communications | Magazines | Mobile Phone Deals | Competitions | Health & Fitness | CarBuyer © 2010 Dennis Publishing Limited. All rights reserved.Licensed by Felden || HomeAbout Rayaz Muthalif's Weblog My experiences related to Cars and Gizmos How to avoid CVT gearbox failures in Honda City, Fit and Jazz (Sri Lankan perspective) 139 Comments Posted by rayazmuthalif on July 8, 2008 I recently was looking to buy a small honda city vehicle (called the Honda Fit, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Fit for details!) and paid a visit to my local agent to get some advise on the car.  The very first response was “don’t buy it Sir, the gearbox is not reliable”.  Now this coming from the local Honda agent, when the Honda CVT gearbox has a solid reputation worldwide was rather disturbing since my research on the web with regard to the car and the gearbox had a very positive view! Probing further I inquired from the technician why he said it was not “reliable”, and he gave some very useful insights, The gearbox he felt was not suitable for local city conditions as the wear and tire on the belt was on the lower gears as driving conditions were 90% urban, and 10% semi-urban, with zero highway conditions in Sri Lanka.  This was very valid for driving within the Colombo city and suburbs, where bumper to bumper traffic conditions were the norm and due to close proximity of traffic lights and congestion, there was a very high percentage of stop-wait-go scenarios. The gearbox could not be repaired and a total replacement had to be done in the event of a belt failure Vehicles wore mostly reconditioned (used in Japan or Singapore), and hence already had a lot of miles, and the belt based transmission had a shorter lifespan compared to the traditional auto boxes resulting in failures. Many users were not aware of CVT gearboxes and treated them as normal auto boxes, and hence the oil changes were done in intervals of 40-60K The responses were quite startling, since these were not the type of facts i saw in any blog related to Honda fit, Jazz CVT gearbox failures! The fact is that the CVT gearboxes do require more attention than the standard auto gearboxes, and the reasons i could identify were, Honda now recommends changing of the CVT gearbox oil every 20-40K periods for normal driving conditions, and 20K intervals for extreme driving conditions.  However based on the information, the extreme levels mentioned by Honda, the pure city driving scenarios as faced in Sri Lanka are far more extreme!, and hence the transmission oil should be replaced every 10K (15K at most) in order to ensure the gearbox does not fail. Initially the transmission oil used for CVT was the same as the standard auto boxes, but now Honda recommends that a special CVT oil be used which has better lubrication.  Based on research it seems even the Honda CVT is not the best and there are third parties making oils that are even more suited for CVT gearboxes.  The point being CVT gearboxes require special transmission oils (standard auto gearbox oils are NOT suitable) If the owners do take care of the oil changes I am positively sure the failures will be minimal, though the question if the gearbox is as durable as the standard auto is questionable, as many sites have indicated that a well cared CVT gearbox has a lifespan of 120-160K km, while an standard box will last far longer with minimal maintenance! The question of if the CVT gearbox failure requires a full gearbox change of course is uncertain, as it seems the belt can be replaced (along with some other parts) for a fraction of the cost of the gearbox.  Would be great if somebody can confirm on this. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Honda Fit / Jazz GE6 Transmission TypesHonda Fit GE6 1.3L review coming soonToyota Axio NZE141G Manual Quick Test Automotive, Honda Fit City, CVT, Fit, GD1, GD6, GD8, Honda, Jazz, Sri Lanka My experience owning a pre-owned Honda Fit GD1 for two years → LikeBe the first to like this post. 139 Responses to How to avoid CVT gearbox failures in Honda City, Fit and Jazz (Sri Lankan perspective) Susantha November 23, 2010 at 9:09 am Hi Rayaz, Kindly provide the information of that supplier since i am in a process of buying GE6, As per currecnt findings, 2007( Last lap tax) Fit will cost 1.15-1.30 M CIF + and should pay 1.47M duty and another 70K for clearing( Airbag+auto gear box+CD player Etc + Reg fee ( atleast grade 4 since some may having accident and repaired card ( grade-R))…however, 2.4M is superb deal and if you dont mind kindly share the information. also correct me if i am worng .. Reply rayazmuthalif November 24, 2010 at 3:38 pm Sorry susantha, my response was to dhanushka’s comment on a GD1. GE6 cars are higher, but with the newer taxes which i think might get rolled out in dec 1 the taxes might reduced by around 10% for the GE6. You should also see what the price a new hybrid GE6 fit is, coz with the taxes low, you might be able to slip on through for a decent price! Reply Susantha November 25, 2010 at 9:11 am Thank you for valubel advise, i checked the hybrid cars like prius,honda etc…no one is familier even in higher rank’s of toyota lanka and stafford since it is too early comment. next issue would be maintainace and repairs if something happen..however, i am working on a HONDA HYBRID MODEL…I BELIVE I SHOLD TAKE A RISE TO GET A GOOD RESULT….thanks Reply rayazmuthalif November 25, 2010 at 9:52 am From what i know, Toyota Prius might be the most likely to be supported in Sri Lanka, since they did showcase the car some time ago, and knowing the local market the preference to Toyota will be greater. While not a Toyota fanatic, from the current Hybrids the Prius is the best in fuel economy, space, looks as long as the brake issue with the Prius has been rectified. I am referring to the 2009 onwards Prius. The Honda challenger is the Insight, that looks almost like the Prius, but since it has a 1.3L petrol compared to the 1.8L prius engine the car has less pulling power, and surprisingly most reviews have found the Prius with the larger engine is better on fuel economy!. The Civic hybrid is also decent but has the same issue as the insight that its slow. I have not yet read much on the recently released Honda GE6 Fit Hybrid, as this might be the best bet, but it will be expensive since its a 2010 model, and a hybrid. Susantha November 20, 2010 at 8:02 am Dear Mositha, you could but the filter 2000-2500 from Tech motors or there is a shop front of TECH and other side of the road who are selling only AIR FILTERS and AC filters and those prices are very reasonable.. Reply Susantha November 20, 2010 at 8:14 am Dear Dhanuka, If you interesting on 2004/10 , HONDA FIT, ORIGINAL BODYKIT,GOLD COLOUR,REG IN SL. 2007/OCT,46000km,spolier,foglamps, low profile tyres wih crome wheels ( low wegiht compared to alloys), CALLME ON 0772747474/0717747474 Reply Dhnushka November 18, 2010 at 8:07 pm Hi I am planning on buying a Honda Fit Aria or the City 2003 model. Which is the better bargain City or Fit Aria? And also how much is the current market price? I have being doing some research on the CVT. But think if there are any issues ideally it can be fixed through Oil extreme right? Reply rayazmuthalif November 19, 2010 at 9:02 am Dhnushka, while the oil extreme additive does sort the problem, it cant sort if the gearbox damage is severe or if the mileage is high for the GD1/GD6 Fit/Fit Aria/City cars. For cars with severe problems adding the additive might sort the problem just enough for the seller to push it, so its very hard to gauge and you really have to trust the seller. Specially be careful buying cars older than 2004 which is where the gearbox issue was very severe, and aggravated by the fact these cars would have had ATF or early CVT oil which was another cause that made the issue more frequent. Honda seems to have revised the gearbox a bit in 2004, and yet again in the last lap cars that reduced the issue somewhat as long as CVT oil was used. Unless you are really tight on budgets, i would always advise you go for a 2004 or newer model if you are going for a City or Fit Aria. The Fit Aria comes with a few extras such as folding mirrors, slightly better interior fit and finish and different lights to the City. However City’s brought from Singapore counter by having the body kit, a complete audio setup (CD with CD changer is common) and alloys. Reply Dhnushka November 19, 2010 at 5:10 pm Dear Rayaz Thanks for your quick reply. Actually came across a Honda Fit Aria today. But its 2002 model and also it has done about 88,000. The car is in reasonably good condition and I drove it and did not feel any jerk as such. Although there was a slight miss I felt when accelerating. Not sure what it was actually. Felt it was not smooth. The car was serviced through the agents and the CVT oils were changed in intervals of 20,000km. Anyway as u advised I will be in the lookout for a 2004 or newer model. But the problem is finding a good condition car for a budget of 2.4 Mil rayazmuthalif November 21, 2010 at 12:33 am You should easily be able to find a decent car for 2.4Mil! Most 2004 Honda Fits go around 19-21 at most, while the City/Fit Aria go around 22-23. However you can also directly import one. My friend got down one and it cost him around 2.4mil for a 2007 Honda Fit with 40K on the odemeter. So if you got 2.4 to spend, don’t buy registered cars, get an unreg one from japan! Randy November 12, 2010 at 6:31 pm Hi, What is the price of 1L of Honda CVT oil? Can this “nippon oil” be used ? Thanks Reply Dinesh November 12, 2010 at 1:06 pm * I was unable to find a single reliable site on the WEB, which mentions the amount of oil to use. Reply rayazmuthalif November 12, 2010 at 5:04 pm Which oil are you talking about Dinesh, the additive or the CVT oil? Reply Dinesh November 15, 2010 at 10:14 am CVT oil Dinesh November 12, 2010 at 1:04 pm Hi, I have a Honda city – 2003. I recently had my car serviced (from service station in Dehiwala). They said that I am low on CVT oil. This is the second time that I hearing this remark. (earlier my mechanic mentioned it some time back) I guess they both checked the level using the dip stick. I got the CVT oil changed (along with the Extreme oil additive) not so long ago (less than 3 months) from the Agents. They only used 3.5 liters. Is this correct? I am not sure if there is an oil leak. However I have not notice any oil stains on my garage floor. Could it be the agents are adding insufficient CVT oil our cars? (could explain why most of us have the gear box issues) just a though I was unable to find a single reliable site on the site, which mentions the amount of oil to use. Thanks Dinesh Reply rayazmuthalif November 12, 2010 at 5:08 pm Hi Dinesh, The CVT oil refill is around 3.5liter (you will have half the bottle left). This is fine, unless the want to flush the gearbox oil in which case you need around 5L. If you fill it too high, you will notice a leak and also jerky behavior when changing the gears from idle. Reply mositha November 10, 2010 at 6:25 pm Hi Riyaz, My Honda fit aria arrived in Sl and took to stafford for service. All went well thanks for your advise. However they have mentioned to change the gear box oil and will call when the new stocks arrive. Also they have found that a filter in the air conditioner is missiing. Is this something important?? Reply rayazmuthalif November 16, 2010 at 11:34 am This is a common thing that is missing in cars from Japan. Seems they don’t use air filters, or remove it and dispose it before the cars are sent to auctions. I am not sure which is the reason, but the end story is that you rarely have an air filter for recon cars from Japan. However since the auto mode in the AC tends to open the vent to get fresh air, this means dirt particles in the air is sucked in and can mess up the compressor. Hence for Sri Lanka having an air con filter is important. I would advise you to install an air filter. I think the price from Stafford would be more than outside shops, so you might be better off buying this and installing it from outside. Reply mositha November 16, 2010 at 12:03 pm Thanks for that Riyaz. One other question. The remote of the GD 6 was missing and it has been grabbed by one of our friendly staff in the harbour as the tag was there in Japan. What is the best place to get a replacement remote for this car? Also when do Honda’s GD6′s have major services due. i.e Fuel filter + air filter replacement and timing belts. Raja Embogama November 9, 2010 at 9:03 am Hello Dears, Can you tell me about Honda Civic Hybrid. I m interested to buy 2008 model. Rgds. Raja Reply rayazmuthalif November 12, 2010 at 4:58 pm Hi, I doubt if even one of the hybrids are in the market, as the local market value is not known. If you can check with stafford and share the market value it would be useful for other interested parties. The engine in that car is the L13 engine coupled with a electric motor. The vehicle is not a puller due to the lower powered engine, but its all about economy with the car. Let me try to put up a blog entry on this car Reply anuka November 8, 2010 at 11:31 pm Hi Rayaz thanks for your comments on the comparison of belta and honda fit. then i would go with the Honda fit. as mentioned since its GE6 version i am assuming there wont be any gear box problem. still do i have to change gear oil every 10 ks?? again many thanks for taking the time to help. Reply rayazmuthalif November 12, 2010 at 5:17 pm Hi, with the GE6 you don’t need to change the oil every 10K!!!, you can do it every 40K which is a good cycle for city driving. You also don’t need to use the oil extreme additive with the GE6 auto box. Dinesh also note that the GE6 comes both in standard auto and the CVT, you need to use normal ATF oil for the standard auto and the CVT oil for CVT gearbox. Reply Susantha November 8, 2010 at 4:05 pm Hi Rayaz, sorry i didn’s see you note…Upul’s number 0777735251- U motors, godallawatte rd, malabe…Just .5 Km form Malabe to Athurugiriya rd, you will get the road board name as “godalla watte rd” and just everyone knows in that area… Reply rayazmuthalif November 8, 2010 at 11:03 pm Thanks susantha, the office friend of mine visited the chap and was very happy as the guy fixed his starter motor issue, and many other smaller niggles for around 10K, when the start motor alone new would have cost him 100K from the agents. Reply P weerasinghe November 8, 2010 at 9:41 am Dear friend, I have Honda fit 2002 GD1 model . I want to change my CVT box. How much will be the cost of brand new CVT box from japan. Am in srilanka, Is there any place in srilanka to contact to import new box from japan. Prabhath Reply rayazmuthalif November 8, 2010 at 10:58 pm Hi Upul, the best options are to check the car parts dealers in delkanda area (past nugegoda). A place named maruchi motors deals a lot with honda parts, though the others should also do the same. However be vary getting an used CVT box, as you really don’t know if that box has been run and has the same problem!. Not sure on a new gearbox, as stafford is the only option and the price is going to be very high buying from them. I think it will cost you around 5-600,000 SL rupees at minimum to get a new gearbox down (possibly even more). Reply Susantha November 20, 2010 at 8:07 am hi i have seen Honda upul is replacing gear boxes, nad he has additional stocks as well. just contact him and you will get the best price.. i hope it is 100000-150000 with fixing charges. upul – 0777735251 Reply Mitzcam October 25, 2010 at 11:40 pm I have a 2005 honda fit. Recently i service my air condition after being out of service for 1 year. After servicing and regas, i realise a loud vibrating sound when the car is put in reverse. I was told by a mechanic that the rpm was too low when the air condition is on. Regards, Mitzcam Reply rayazmuthalif November 1, 2010 at 4:54 pm Does the car vibrate with the AC on in idle? Coz if the rpm is too low that should impact you in idle. Usually the fit is around 800-1000rpm in idle with AC on. If it’s not happening something else is wrong, and you best get the car checked, specially since everything was fine before. Reply kaushalya October 17, 2010 at 10:17 pm Hi Susantha Thank u very much for the quick reply… i’ve decided to go to upul. By the way, how many kilometers have u done after adding the oil extreme… Cheers! Reply Reply Susantha October 18, 2010 at 10:50 am it is less than 3K as yet… Reply rayazmuthalif October 18, 2010 at 11:36 am Hi Kaushalaya, I am sure Honda Upul must be knowing a lot more than us, however please ask him what is his assurance with the repair for the Honda Civic. Unlike the Fit the Oil Extreme is not effective with the Civic ES and the problem appears after just a few thousands of Km. Based on my research long time ago, as several of my friends have the CVT ES Civic and they inquired from me, I found that it required several hardware fixes such as the EGR valve, etc. In the case of the HRV CVT which also had issues, there is a Honda repair kit which is around 75-100K which fixes this problem fairly well. The CVT issues with different honda gearboxes are different, so just check with Honda Upul on his assurance, as after all that expenses if the problem is going to resurface in 2-3000Km you won’t like it However keep up updated as i believe there are a lot of ES series honda’s with the CVT boxes, and your solution will be most useful for them Reply anuka October 17, 2010 at 8:27 pm hi i am planning to buy a Honda Fit 2008/03. GE6. should i go for it or will the CVT problem still be existing in the 2008/ 03 version. comments are appreciated. Reply rayazmuthalif October 18, 2010 at 11:42 am Hi Anuka, The GE6 CVT box has a torque converter that reduces the stress on the belt, and also has gone through a lot more changes, so problems with this gearbox has not been reported, and considering the car has been in the market since 2007 that’s a good thing. You would also notice that the newer Honda CVT gearboxes seem to be a lot less troublesome, so you should be fine. The GE6 also comes with a manual auto which is sold in Singapore/Thailand as people there were worried over the CVT. This gearbox it seems is not as smooth as the CVT and people are now missing the older CVT !! The vehicle i have reviewed (Brought by my bro) has a CVT box and is over 50K in mileage and the box is smooth. The GE6 is also a much better car now, bigger, more comfortable, and more powerful yet very economical. I am in the process of collecting scans of the car reviews of the GE6 and uploading them for benefit of others, as after checking the new Vitz/Demio (Mazda 2)/Swift i believe the GE6 Fit is one of the most practical cars and is actually bigger inside than larger cars such as the axio/corolla!! Reply anuka October 23, 2010 at 10:31 pm Hi Rayaf Read your comments. many thanks. so based on the comments is seems it is okay to buy and there are no gear box problems. my only question is is it a reliable car. what would be the price for honda fit GE6 2008 would be? i want a good reliable car. based on your experience is the honda FIT GE6 a better car or the Belta 1.3. if this option is given to you which car would you choose. rayazmuthalif October 23, 2010 at 11:14 pm Here is my comparison - Belta is over 3-5 lakhs more than the Honda Fit - Fully equipped Belta’s are hard to fine, fully equipped Honda Fits are easy to find - Good condition and choice of colors limited on Belta’s due to high local demand, Honda Fit you can choose - Panaroma room only available for Honda Fit - Belta 10% more fuel economical in town, outstation both are similar - Honda engine is more powerful than the Belta - Both cars have CVT gearboxes, yet should have no issues as Honda has learnt from the GD model issues, while Toyota seems to have also learnt from the same model! - Toyota parts would be cheaper locally mainly due to the availability of third party parts, if you were to buy from the agents and do the repairs there is no big difference in the price - Resale of the Belta would be easier thanks due to the high Toyota brand loyalty in Sri Lanka - Space both cars are similar, though the Honda Fit rear legroom should be a bit better thanks to its design - Though the Fit has one of the largest boots in the hatchback market, the Belta boot is larger due to the sedan design - Belta suspension copes better with the choppy roads, though the HOnda is now much better with the new model, but still not as smooth - Honda Fit has a more sport ride, though the Belta does a fair job in the handling department - Honda interior design classy and traditional, Belta has the weird digital speed in the middle concept, depends on the user. Honda steering wheel uber cool, compared to boring toyota From a reliability point of view, both cars should serve you well, though from general awareness of my friends using Toyota’s, the Honda’s have a bit more petty repairs that need to be done more frequently such as the rubber mounts on shocks, etc. Take pure reliability into place, i would say they pretty dead even, as the Honda Fit has a top notch reputation worldwide, while the Toyota Vitz (which the Belta is based on) is also highly rated, though down played due to the very bland design. So i would say its your decision, just given you an unbiased opinion. Rayaz Darhana October 17, 2010 at 12:14 pm I am considering to buy a Honda Fit GD6, I have not used a Honda before. Most of my colleagues who have Honda’s have not shifted from honda!!. The other option i am looking at VitZ 1.3 CC – can any of you guy let me know if this Honda Fit 2007 GD6 will be a good choice -trouble free and less maintenance. Mainly for running in Colombo and suburbs. Will it be a wise choice ? Reply rayazmuthalif October 18, 2010 at 11:48 am Hi Darhana, Are you looking at a registered car or unregistered. If you are looking for a unregistered car, a Vitz 1.3 i believe is going to cost you well over 2.7 mil, and for that price you can bring down a Honda Fit GE6, the newer model!! That might be a better option. The Vitz is brought in the bucket load due to the madness with Toyota, but if you compare that with any other car in that market you will find the Vitz is the cheapest quality, smallest interior and the quirkiest design !! and mind you i don’t hate toyota’s as some of the newer cars such as the Mark X are GREAT even in design, let along engineering. The Toyota IQ is superb in design and though i have not driven one, supposed to be great to drive! However the Fit is a much better overall car with higher grade plastics, a lot more space and superb seats and also a better design externally (that wouuld depend on your personal view though, some love the round chubby looking Vitz). The GD6 by the way is the sedan version, though if you are interested in a Vitz that means you are okay with hatchbacks. If your budget permits do see if you can get a GE6 Fit as its a lot better than the older model. Another car i would recommend to see is the new Mazda Demio (based on the Ford Fiesta, well known for its great driving experience), which is cheaper and a bit smaller but a great car, though part prices are a bit more than the Honda. Reply Darhana October 24, 2010 at 7:52 pm Thanks for your info it was helpful in taking the correct decision. Decided to go for a Vitz F Edition 1.3 @ 2.95 Mil . In top condition. Mileage 19K. The decision to go for the VITZ was on the Gear Box issues and Toyota’s resale and spare part availability. The options Fill option, Air Condition, Power Steering, Power Window, Power Mirror (Retract), 8 Passenger Air Bags, Built-In HDD TV Navigation System, Reveres Back Camera, DVD, CD, CVT-i Automatic Transmission, 5 Door, 5 Seats, Gasoline, 1320cc, ABS, Dual Airbags, Hid Discharge Lights, Back Monitor, Intelligent Key With Push Start, Winking Mirrors, 14″ Wheels, Interior Colour-Beige, Deluxe Floor Mat Set, Metallic Beige Pearl, Engine VVT-i Tks for taking the time. Cheers Darshana BB October 16, 2010 at 3:40 pm Trying to avail waranty previllage for CVT gear box. Any idea of warranty period for CVT gearbox in Thailand? I am a 2nd owner of Honda city model 2003, which is going to be 5 years this coming December. I’ve been complaining to the service center for the jirking issues similar to many feedbacks above, but response from service center is unsatisfactory. Any experience CVT gear box replaced by honda service center under warranty? Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Reply Susantha October 15, 2010 at 11:57 am hi Kaushalya, i tried extreme oil for my FIT as per very valueble advises of Rayaz. it is perfect now..very smooth trassmssion in heavy traffic. no vibration or jurk at all. what is the cost as per upul. Reply Susantha October 15, 2010 at 11:58 am hi personnaly know upul and i do the maintainance from him..charges are very reasonable for me…. Reply kaushalya October 16, 2010 at 9:16 pm Hi Susantha thank u very much for the reply…i was waiting for some news from u guys… Susantha, he said that for cvt oil (4 to 5 liters 8000 to 10000) + additive( Rs 5000) will cost around Rs 15000 and his labour charges will be Rs 3000. what do u think… ( about 2months back i spent 8000 for the cvt oil) pls reply Susantha October 17, 2010 at 1:30 am yes. 1L of Cvt around 2000-2500 place to place X 4 or 5 as per your gear box capasity. extreme oil is exatly 5K @ Tech motors as wel. i have no idea of cleaning gear box belt…since i just change only cvt with extreme oil….however, upul has very reasonable charges as per others and he is trust worthy person. ( ever time u can see more than 10 cars in his garaj) rayazmuthalif November 2, 2010 at 10:27 am Hi Susantha, could you please share Honda Upul contact no and address in case you have it? One of my office mates HRV has seems to have seen better days and requires a good mechanic kaushalya October 17, 2010 at 10:14 pm Hi Susantha Thank u very much for the quick reply… i’ve decided to go to upul. By the way, how many kilometers have u done after adding the oil extreme… Cheers! Reply Susantha November 5, 2010 at 11:12 am Dear Rayaz, I am planing to go for GE6-FIT,,it has AT gear box and FAT gear box ..what is the difference between, AT and FAT rayazmuthalif November 8, 2010 at 11:08 pm Hi susantha, the auctions show AT and FAT inter-changeably. However the Honda Fit sold in Japan comes in two flavors, one with a standard 5-sp automatic gearbox and the other a 5-sp CVT gearbox. The new CVT gearbox does not have the problems that plagued the GD series, and in japan most of the cars are CVT. The 5-sp automatic gearbox is usually coupled with the GE7 which is the 4WD version. However in Thailand and Singapore honda sells the Jazz with a manual-auto gearbox, an electronic implementation of the manual. kaushalya October 13, 2010 at 7:15 pm i was able to show my car to Honda-upul …he said the problem is a valve in the gear box ( which releases oil to the chain) which may be blocked now. he said he will have to open the gear box, clean the valve and need to put the cvt oil plus a additive oil ( which i think is the oil extreme) . Assurance of the job, he never explained me clearly…… The cost all this will be little high… shall i try the oil extreme my self because i changed the cvt oil 2000km back….. pls reply THANX Reply Rashid October 10, 2010 at 12:49 am Hi Rayaz I also want to know some technical advice as I have a Honda City Varion 2007 Model in Karachi Paksiatn. I bought it in June 2007 and uptill now it has travelled 58000 Kms. For the past two months I am observing some engine vibration sounds when I put the automatic gear on “R” to reverse. The sound comes when the AC is on and as I cahge the gear to Reverse and the engine gets pick it give a big sound of vibration. While on other gears it works fine. The Honda Service told me that the transmission box needs to be changed while another said there might be some initail stages which can be rectified by minor gear repaurs. lease advise what is all this as I am a non technical person and the cost of repair is very high in Pakistan for the fault Reply rayazmuthalif October 11, 2010 at 4:28 pm Hi Rashid, 58K is also the time the issue can start and the reverse gear is one sign of this problem. However for many the first solution is to check the left engine mount. Sadly visual inspections don’t confirm a fault so you have to get it removed and checked since the cracks come from within and 60K is like the normal period. The check and replace won’t take more than 1hr, as the left engine mount is easy to replace (maybe honda new the problem and made it easy to replace). Why not first check the engine mount before we go any further. Reply kaushalya October 7, 2010 at 8:46 pm HI let me thank all of u for doing a wonderful job..! RAYAZ… i have a 2003 civic with a cvt gear box. my car is being maintained by the Stafford and upto now it was ok until now where it gave the jerky sound with pickup, 10000 km after my last cvt oil change. After my mechanic’s advice i changed the cvt oil ( 5000km earlier) . the sound completely disappeared. Now, 2000km after the oil change i feel the jerk is reappearing on and off. I am so disappointed and confused. Am i to ad “oil extreme” now? will it help? is there a way where you can assess the damage of the gear box? pls advice thank you kaushalya Reply rayazmuthalif October 9, 2010 at 3:04 am Hi Kaushalya, We tried out the oil extreme with the ES3 Civic, but found that unlike the Fit/Jazz/City, the fix was not permanenty and very short lived, hence i would say don’t bother with the additive for the CVT. However the issue with the Civic seems more due to the EGR valve than the gearbox, I will try to unearth a link that gave more descriptions of this solution and share it with you. Reply Kaushalya October 10, 2010 at 12:16 am Dear Rayaz.. thank you for the quick reply. really appreciate it. i love my civic and really want to settle this problem. Rayaz, the jerk dose not come always. dose that mean that it is at a reparable state? if i am to repair this EGR valve, to whom should i go to… pls reply rgds rayazmuthalif October 11, 2010 at 4:24 pm I would the agent is a good starting place, though i hear there are better mechanics outside the agent in Sri Lanka. However i have never had the need to meet these experts, so in case anyone who visits this forum knows of such chaps please help Kaushalya. I will check with some folks i know of any of these contacts and update you shortly. kaushalya October 11, 2010 at 8:40 pm Hi Rayaz i was able to show my car to Honda-upul …he said the problem is a valve in the gear box ( which releases oil to the chain) which may be blocked now. he said he will have to open the gear box, clean the valve and need to put the cvt oil plus a additive oil ( which i think is the oil extreme) . Assurance of the job, he never explained me clearly…… The cost all this will be little high… shall i try the oil extreme my self because i changed the cvt oil 2000km back….. pls reply THANX Susantha September 28, 2010 at 11:09 am Dear Rayaz,, is there any thing as CVT filter change…and after how many KM ? Pls advise.. also i went through oil extreme @ USA website but particuler product is not avaiable with them Reply Susantha September 25, 2010 at 3:00 pm hi I used the extrem oil and CVT today and it is a real magic and everyhing work perfectly. i mean no jurk under any circumstances…You know my garaj owner did not trsut me and he was repuse to put the oil since it is mentioned as “adictive for engine oil”….however, i got the solution and only worry is cvt oil price is varu from place to place… thank you again rayaz and dinesh… Reply Susantha September 23, 2010 at 10:51 am Dear Rayaz, ” honda’s must be on the rise with the Airwave and the GE6 becoming more common, so stocks are going to be a problem!” exactly, kindly advise, is it posible to replaced GD 1 engine with GE6…? Reply rayazmuthalif September 23, 2010 at 12:02 pm I don’t think so, as the GE6 is a complete new car, totally different engine, several new gearbox types, suspension, chassis. I am sure some auto tuners might do such things, but if you are talking straight fix change, no its not going to work out. Reply Hemajith September 22, 2010 at 3:11 pm Hi.. I live in Dubai and use a Honda Jazz (as the Fit is named here!) 2008. I got a second hand car at 42K and have been running it for two months. It gives about 15kmpl mileage and me and my wife,we both love this car. We were thinking to buy one when we get back to Sri Lanka. But after reading the comments I’m wondering whether this car suites our conditions there. Here in Dubai it’s amazing road conditions and not to mention highways too. So please advice me whether I should settle for a another model, perhaps from Toyota or Nissan which suites Sri Lankan conditions. Thanx. Reply rayazmuthalif September 23, 2010 at 12:06 pm Well if you are using 2008 fit you should not have a problem as it has a new gearbox that does not seem to have the problems with the old model. The new Jazz which is the model sold in Singapore, etc go further in that it does not have a CVT gearbox in most models, and has a “manual-automatic” or a normal automatic. So either way if you go for a GE6 Fit/Jazz you should be fine. Currently due to the Toyota madness the prices of Toyota cars are ridiculously high, however the Honda’s are lower and if you are fine with the Fit/Jazz its make it an awesome buy. Reply ejasoft September 22, 2010 at 12:07 am now it have this problem in my cvt have cgange the oli and now had more problems thank u any way Reply rayazmuthalif September 23, 2010 at 12:03 pm you changed the CVT oil or you used the additive? Reply Susantha September 21, 2010 at 10:24 am Dear rarayaz and Dinesh, thanks to you i also bought Extreme oil from TECH for 4500, it is a very small and 200ml, is it enough for 3.3L cvt? same thing again CVT out of stcoks ,,,I hope some garaj are paurchasing bulk and selling for hire price exsample : RTS motores at Ambagahandiya-Rajagiriya is seeling 1L for Rs.2500.. however, tech said wait till next week and get it for less than 2000… do we have any place where we could buy other tahn Tech..thanks Susantha Reply Dinesh September 21, 2010 at 2:15 pm Hi Susantha, I added the whole bottle with my oil change. As for the CVT oil… check from MAG city. I heard they also sell this. Not too sure of the price though. Also check with the Agents (just in case – they might have some stock) Regards Dinesh Reply rayazmuthalif September 21, 2010 at 3:34 pm Also check with auto miraj, as they also carry stocks. However last week my bro was told they were out of stock as well. I guess the import of CVT gearbox honda’s must be on the rise with the Airwave and the GE6 becoming more common, so stocks are going to be a problem! Dinesh September 10, 2010 at 2:37 pm Hi, I got the CVT oil changed from the Agents. Also added the extreme oil. The vibration / jerk upon pickup is completely gone. The question that I now have is what should be the frequency for oil change? 15K or can I wait a bit longer? Also found this interesting article on transmission oil change http://www.buzzle.com/articles/transmission-flush-problems.html Regards Dinesh Reply rayazmuthalif September 12, 2010 at 1:05 am Hi Dinesh, I am so glad to hear that the additive has done the magic once again What’s the mileage of your car currently like? In case the car is over 75K, and you run mainly in Colombo and that too in traffic times, then i would say first run for 15K and see if you are good and if you are maybe stretch the next change to 20K, and each time remember to use the additive. By the way i forgot to ask, what price does Tech Motors sell the Oil Extreme additive at? The transmission flush i don’t think is a recommended option, as highlighted by the latter part of the article. However i saw this option also discussed in some Honda Fit forums, but this had not caused any gains to the owners who had tried this option out. Reply Dinesh September 12, 2010 at 7:15 pm They quoted Rs.5,500- but I got a reduction of Rs.1,000- as I also bought the CVT oil from them. Btw CVT oil is selling like hot cakes! When I called Tech Motors on Wednesday there were about 20 bottles left with them, I reserved 4 and went to collect on Thursday… by then all the rest was gone! Every time check with the agents… I get the same answer. OUT OF STOCK. So all you guys out there nearing the CVT oil change better buy the oil beforehand. (also double check with the agents if they are willing to change the oil if brought from outside… that is if you are hoping to get it changed from the agents) They changed it for me as they were out of stock. Not sure what will be the case if they have stock. rayazmuthalif September 12, 2010 at 10:29 pm That’s pretty decent price since it needs to be shipped rather than hand carried. True its only about 2500 in singapore, but the value of that oil for Honda Fit/Jazz/City/Fit Aria is a lot more!! Yeah its taken a while for Sri Lankans to get used to the CVT oil being different from ATF oil, as many still do their oil changes from their own garages as opposed to the agents, and hence have not known about the CVT oil which was another reason why the CVT issue became so common in Sri Lanka. Shame that the agent does not stock, though i guess i must have been lucky as throughout my 2 year period i changed the oil 3 times, and had no issues with stocks. However now a lot more cars in the Honda line up having CVT (Jazz, Fit, Airwave, Civic FD1, Fit Aria, etc) the need must be a lot more. The toyota folks also better learn their lessons from the Honda crowd and use the Toyota CVT oil for the new cars, as most new japan import toyota cars are with CVT. Susantha September 9, 2010 at 11:14 pm rayazmuthalif , thank you again,,, i was trying to find a way getting “additive ” even in ebay ( It say extreme oil)…is there any place or person get this product..? pls, help Reply Dinesh September 10, 2010 at 11:23 am Hi Susantha, I was able to get the extreme oil from Tech Motors. Regards Dinesh Reply rayazmuthalif September 12, 2010 at 1:02 am Wow dinesh, that’s very good news indeed. Glad that finally the most well known Honda spare part shop has finally decided to bring the oil. Very good news indeed. Susantha September 13, 2010 at 3:04 pm Dear Dinesh,,, thank you very much…. Reply Nishan September 8, 2010 at 2:20 pm Hi All, Thanks for the very useful information published in this site. I bought a Honda Fit Aria , 1.5 cc/ year 2005 / GD8 Model, (7 speed tiptronic), G grade It has done 48K, and the car is in perfect condition. Need to understand few things, 1. Does it have a CVT or Manumatic gearbox? (as its tiptronic) 2. Will i face the same issue as a user of 2001, 2, 3 Honda Fit Aria car user? 3. How often do i need to change the gearbox oil? Please comment Thanks Nishan Reply rayazmuthalif September 9, 2010 at 5:26 am I would assume since the vehicle is a 2005 model that this would have been imported prior to the tax changes, since the earliest you can legally import based on the 3.5 year limit is a 2007 model. So be a bit watchful on the mileage and the condition of the car, which maybe different from what is stated. Any idea which car vendor you brought it from? Did they register the car for you or did you register it yourself? Did they give you the original JAAI certificate (the documents will include japanese sheets that are laminated and have a hologram). If the gearbox is a 7-speed, then its the CVT 7-speed. There is no normal auto with tiptronic for the Fit Aria. Basically what honda did in 2004 was to introduce the CVT oil which helped improve the CVT jerk issue, though they have supposedly improved the gearbox over the years silently that models post 2004 should be a lot more reliable, though not immune from the problem, and I have friends who have had the newer post 2004 model who have faced the same problem. The internet forums in Thailand and Malaysia also indicate that the problem was not eradicated. Assuming you are a Colombo City runner who commutes during our wonderful peak traffic times, you will have to stick to a 15,000km cycle for the gearbox oil. However getting a few additive bottles will give you that extra protection, as mileages of cars brought down prior to the new tax revision is doubtful, as they even doctor the copies auction reports (since JAAI certificates were not necessary in the last few years, and was resurrected back with the new tax scheme). Reply Susantha September 3, 2010 at 9:01 am hi, rayazmuthalif | could you please tell me , what is the normal oil change interval if i am in colombo and monthly i used to travel 1200-1500 colomobo and 600-800km out. aslo where we can find spare parts for reasonable proces…since i was expending lot of money for my prevoius jazz and few parts of currecnt fit-2004. sellers are telling that the HONDA parts are expensive as trend ?…. Reply rayazmuthalif September 7, 2010 at 1:26 pm Agent prices for parts are comparatively expensive, though if you were to compare prices with the toyota original the prices are not very different. However it seems some of the honda parts need more frequent replacement than a Toyota. The advantage is that Toyota cars have many alternative parts other than original available locally which are cheaper and these are what most “local garages” use so you feel your costs are less. For honda a popular place is Tek Motors in Panchikawatte, as they carry both original and good alternative parts, where the prices will be less than 50% of the original. You can save a decent amount by opting for OEM air filters and oil filters (air filters in particular, OEM is Rs 1500-1700, original is close to Rs 5000). Though the OEM (most popular being the VIC brand) is not as efficient as the original, you may need to run both and see the total per km cost difference to decide which ones is suited for you. Looks like you do around 2-2500km a month, which means in 6 months you are close 12000 km. In your case using the OEM filter with standard oil, and changing both every 4-5000km might be good on the pocket and your engine. Travelling within Colombo in traffic is a big strain on the gearbox as we are constantly changing to neutral and doing stop-start situations every few meters. So this is something the CVT gearbox simply has problem with on endurance. You should definitely change your CVT oil every 15k, and i would strictly advise that you also get the additive to ensure you keep the CVT jerk issue out of your troubles Reply Susantha September 3, 2010 at 8:50 am Thank you very much for quick and valuble advices Reply Susantha September 2, 2010 at 3:22 pm First thank very much sir rayazmuthalif for you valuble comments. I am a Honda FIT – 2004 user and I alos had considarable jerk when pick up and replaced the both upper mounts and now it jerk is very low. kindly advice is it the same CVT issue, I used do CVT changes thourgh person know as “HONDA UPUL-MALABE” who is x-stafford tech. kindly advice me on the small jerk, Is CVT gear box reparble?, Cant we fix a ordinary gear box ?and where we can get the”extreme additive oil ? Thanks you again… Susantha. Reply rayazmuthalif September 3, 2010 at 7:13 am Hi Susantha, glad to hear this blog is being useful Officially the gearbox is not replaceable though there is a guy that car dealers use who seems to be able to fix it, though it seems the fix does not work always. However if the jerk is only low after the mount replacement the additive is the cheap and best option as it works well. However the additive is not locally available. If you can find someone going to Singapore why not get 1-2 bottles, its about 2500 bucks in SL currency for a bottle. The address and location of the garage selling it can be found by going to http://www.buddyclub.org. The bottles though sealed have a tendency to leak, i would advise that you give the guy a small plastic lunch box that is around 8″ in height to keep the bottles from getting squeezed when stored in the luggage (you can’t hand carry it due to regulations). The bottle is around 7″ x 2″ in size, and is around 125ml in volume. You pour the additive with the CVT oil and it sorts the problem out and also helps bring back the oil change interval to normal. Reply Dinesh August 27, 2010 at 9:43 am Thanks for the quick reply. The car has done 66 k. Not sure of the accuracy as I am the second owner. (or at least according to the CR I am the second owner ). Anyways I found a guy called Irvin who is selling the extreme oil on one of the forums regarding the same issue. He quotes the following prices 120ml bottle – AUD$30 250ml bottle -AUD$50 The problem is I don’t know how genuine the guy is. Keeping this as my last resort to get down the additive oil. Dinesh I will get the engine mount checked when I take the car for the oil change. Still waiting for the CVT oil. Reply rayazmuthalif August 30, 2010 at 6:42 am Did you check Teck motors in panchikawathe? They should have CVT transmission fluid. Reply Dinesh August 26, 2010 at 11:57 am Is there now any place where I can get the oil additive in Sri Lanka? Thanks Dinehs Reply Dinesh August 26, 2010 at 11:45 am Hi, I own a Honda City – 2003, I just reached 15k from the last CVT oil change. For the last few weeks I too seem to be having the jerking on pick up. When I contacted the local agents (Sri Lanka), they say that they are out of stock and I have to wait at least another week or two until they get new stocks. Also I checked about the additive – extreme oil, the guy who answered the phone was not aware about this. However he said that they are now repairing or at least open the gear box and see what the problem. Another issue that I have been having is there is a hum that comes from the gear box, this was there for quite some time (nearly 2 ½ years). Could this be a contributing factor to the above issue? I need to get this checked. What would you recommend? Should I go the agents are shall I try autozone? Thanks Dinesh Reply rayazmuthalif August 26, 2010 at 4:10 pm Sadly no one locally is bringing the additive, the only guy who brought a few has now stopped after the new tax revisions he is now back to new car imports (earlier i think he was interested as it allowed him to buy cars with faulty gearboxes for low prices and use the oil additive to get them to prime condition and make good buck reselling). However contact Dhanuja (Technical manager) at Stafford, i shared him the info, and i think he might be knowing people who bring this done. Stafford cannot sell it directly since this is not a Honda approved oil, and Honda still does not accept the CVT is a problem. The strange this is the CVT issue is only a problem in hot climates and when driven in traffic, cars in Japan and other colder climates don’t have this issue. So maybe the engineering and testing forgot the conditions like those faced in SL, Singapore, etc. If not buddyclub a garage in Singapore is the closest source (http://bcfmotorsport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3). Try to get a few bottles as the things works. However before you go changing the oil, did you check the engine mounts, as the Honda Fit left side mount fails at short intervals, and also causes a judder / jerky feeling. You did not mention the mileage of the car, but if its recondition and brought during the last few years most cars had their odometer manipulated in Sri Lanka, unless you got it down direct or new the vendor very very well. However if your mileage is over 50-60K, and you are running without the additive, 15K is far too long, you have to change the CVT oil under 10k (in Sri lankan driving conditions, this will not apply for people running this car on highways). With regard to the hum, never really noticed such a noise in my Honda Fit, nor in the other cars i have driven including the city and the Fit-Aria. So unable to comment. The agent is the best place to check your car out, or get the contact of one of the senior technicians at Stafford as i hear they do personal work during the weekends. They do hate the CVT gearbox so they will always be negative! so bear with them but get the checks done their or by one of their technicians. Reply Pat August 24, 2010 at 9:56 pm Hi And don’t forget the Jazz rear wheel bearing issues that Honda refuses to acknowledge with a recall. The bearings are tending to chop out at the 40k mark. And some crazy Honda engineer in Japan designed the wheel bearings with the race bearing integral with the hub. Sounds sophisticated until the owner realises that worn bearings require an A$270 Honda specific part instead ofa a cheap set of standard bearings. Reply rayazmuthalif August 26, 2010 at 4:24 pm Yeah i had this as a comment in my 2 year experience, and i thought i had got a faulty hub. Coz i had to change it twice during my ownership period. Based on your comment it looks like its another “known” issue The crazy thing is that this car went through 7 years sales, and was a best seller in several countries, and still Honda seems to have never fixed these common problems. I am sure they could have provided a fix for the gearbox (maybe avoided to say they screwed up and have to replace all for free), and for smaller things like the engine mount wearing, and the issue you just highlighted. The AC valve is another issue that the agent themselves mentioned as a common failure on this model. Reply Buddhika August 11, 2010 at 5:21 pm Hi, I’m planning to buy a Honda Fit aria soon (unregistered) and found this blog which turned up to be very useful. When I checked in the internet for this model I though t this could be the best to buy. Further I got to know from some people using the car that it is fuel efficient and does about 13km/l in Colombo. I thought at a time, Oh this is the car I should go with. After reading the comments posted, I feel like thinking twice before I make the move. Hopefully the model will be 2008 but not sure about the mileage. What is your advice dear friends? Could there be any developments from Honda on this matter? Any updates? Cheers! Reply rayazmuthalif August 12, 2010 at 6:01 am Hi Buddika, Be a bit careful buying Honda Fit aria’s these days, as I was trying to find this car for some of my friends. I found that these cars are rare in Japan now, and most cars are high mileage. Vendors may tray to clock the odometer and sell them here. I also hear of talks that local vendors who in addition to keeping healthy margins when selling with the new taxation, are also resorting to even dirtier tricks by editing the auction reports. They are buying cars with high mileage and low grade, fixing the car up and then selling them as high grade. Since we are now in a digital age, its very easy for them to take the original auction report and edit it and show you fake information. If you do find GD6 or GD8 Honda Fit Aria its a good buy as the local market value on which the taxation is done is very low (even lower than a Honda fit by 200K YEN!). The latter editions of the Fit/Fit Aria/City/Jazz seems to be less prone to the CVT problem, though not immune and you will need to resort to the additive to protect the gearbox. However the newer Honda Fit (GE6) comes in two variants. The one’s sold in Singapore has the new auto gearbox (which i hear is actually a manual gearbox with override auto controls). This same gearbox is also used in the 1.5L version in Japan. However the 1.3L version in Japan has a CVT box. However Honda seems to have fixed the problems they had, as they are now confident enough to use this gearbox worldwide on the Fit. The gearbox is also a lot smoother thanks to what they call a torque converter. A GE6 is nearly the same price in Japan to a GD1 Fit or a Fit Aria, but the local agent value is bit more (around 200-300K YEN more than) which is the difference. If your budget allows go for the GE6, and try to import directly by getting hold of vendor who can buy you car from the auctions. I dealt with ramadbk (specifically a sales chap in japan called Gayan) who was very good, though the local contacts are not that great as they are overwhelmed by the orders! You should be able to get down a decent condition fit under 3Mil SL rupees. Cheers Reply Willy July 14, 2010 at 10:36 pm Hi! I’m from Malaysia and had bougth Honda City 1.5 VTEC in the mid of september 2007. After hearing the CVT gear box issue here, I wonder that my car will having the same problem stated on those posted mail here. If yes, could I require to apply the additive for longivity of the gear box lifespan? Any prevention can be taken from these issue happen? What if I change my car to the new version of the Honda City which was launch recently? May I know any difference between these 2 version of the Honda City in the aspect of the technology used and the gear box quality? Please kindly advise. Thanks… Reply rayazmuthalif July 16, 2010 at 1:24 am Hi, Though Honda was supposed to have improved the gearbox in the post 2004 gearboxes, I keep seeing enough comments and people still having the issue. However the problem is less pronounced indicating some changes may have been done by Honda. However using the additive has helped many reduce the occurrence of the problem, so it definitely is one thing you can do. Also in case you drive a lot in traffic make sure you change the gearbox oil with CVT oil every 15,000km along with the additive that should definitely sustain your gearbox for a long period. So i doubt if you need to be getting to excited on changing your car, since it seems to have held on for over 3 years with no issues. So do the additive and change of the transmission oil and you should be fine at least for around 100-120,000km. The newer Honda City has dropped the CVT gearbox and has what they call a manual automatic box. This is similar in concept to the ferrari 360!, but nope it no racing gearbox like the one in that car. The gearbox is supposed to be a manual gearbox where the clutch is operated electronically. Hence the issue of the CVT gearbox is not going to be an issue, however i hear the new gearbox is not as smooth. Sadly i have not been able to test drive this car as its only available in minute quantities, and none of my friends have it either The new honda city is built with higher quality than the previous City, hence the increase in price!, and also now features a i-VTEC engine, though this is not the same as the i-VTEC in the civic cars, though they use the same branding. The engine is a lot powerful than the i-DSI, though similar to your VTECH engine but more economical than the VTEC. Reply D400 July 13, 2010 at 1:58 pm Hi Rayaz, I have an issue with my gear box, though it is for the Honda HRV – it is a 2001 model, automatic transmission Problem is it does not seem to change gears past 3rd gear, hence it has a very high RPM towards the 4 mark, and it does not switch down even with continuous accelaration. Even so, the car is able to move at pretty high speeds, only that it is not as powerful as expected. And I am worried that the strain on the engine will cause it to knock. I have gone through most of the comments and will definitely like to try out the oil additive, issue is, it is not available in my country – Kenya, might you suggest an alternative? My mechanic and I suspect it may be a sensor issue, and one of the comments suggested cleaning the sensors – we were wondering if we could get direction on which one. Basically, is there anyone out there with a similar issue and how did they resolve it? Thanks. Reply rayazmuthalif July 5, 2010 at 12:34 am Sold my Honda Fit GD1 to a friend, the odo meter is now 73K, i got it at 53K and used it for precisely two years. I first ensured the CVT oil was changed more frequently to avoid any gearbox issues, and then once i found the additive i resorted to a normal 15-20K cycle. However i did not finish that cycle by the time i sold the car, and the good news is the gearbox is faultless. I also had brought 2 bottles of the additive for future use, and passed it to the new owner, since those are vital for the trouble free running of the car. Several of my friends who have brought fit/fit aria/city cars have now used the additive and have been blessed with trouble free running. In addition several vehicle vendors i know who got the info from me have been using the additive and it seems they are happy (as they bring the additive for personal use). The bad news is that i hope they are not using this additive for cars with real gearbox troubles, as the oil will cover the problem up for a short period of time! Overall the car served good with the following observations, 1. Fuel economy Average in Colombo Sri lanka running where you find a color light every 100m! is around 10-11kmpl. Average driving outstation in rather narrow roads is around 12-14kmpl Best fuel economy when driving a long trip i got was 19.5 kpl on a hot and humid day Best fuel economy i have seen on the dial when driving in colombo late night when the roads are deserted was 21kmpl Worst fuel economy i have seen is when the car is idling with the AC on in traffic, and this can get bad as 4-5kmpl 2. Repairs a. The AC fan motor packed up (same happened to my CF4 accord i had previously) around the 60K period. I changed this from a company called Suraweera AC, they are near my house and are AC professionals. I found out that they seem to be supplying the agent as well, and their charge is much much less than the agent, specially on the labor. b. The rear hub bearings went, this was weird and the agent themselves were surprised. Replacement was not cheap ! c. The engine mount (the infamous left mount) busted as expected, and had to be changed. This again was a common thing with this car and seems to need replacement every 30-40K. The other two mounts remain intact. The agent also mentioned that unlike others this car only had 3 mounts. d. The front shock bushes on top had to be replaced, the agent informed me this was a common thing with this car. e. The AC valve started a wierd squeal, like a rat !!! The agent indicated this was another common problem not with this car but with several other honda’s. I got this changed before i handed the car to the new owner. The repair was to cost less than 10K but went to 21K as the part alone was 11.5K and the labor + filling AC gas (the had to flush the gas out before doing this replacement). Well the squeal is gone, and my pocket dented. Lucky new owner Fuel economy dropped to 9.5kmpl, and i thought this was due to carbon build up in the injectors. I got the agent to remove the injectors and clean them by hand and do the fuel injector cleaning (using the WURTH product). Removing the injectors is a messy job, unlike my older CF4, and the O-rings tend to crack and had to be replaced. Seems the O-rings are not stocked by the agent everytime so watch out. When the removed the EGR valve parth was almost 80% blocked with carbon deposits, and ye the car seems to be have been working pretty fine with this The surprise was that the fuel economy got worse (7-8kmpl) after the treatment, and then agent then reset the computer, but then informed me that in some cars the cleaning is so effective that like a new car the fuel economy drops and it takes time before the fuel economy comes back to normal as the injectors have to get a bit of dirt it seems, wierd. However as informed by them the pull has increased so maybe its the truth. The good news was that the economy started to improve, and informed the new buyer that the best economies would take a bit of time as the 1000km has not yet been achieved after i did this cleanup. When giving i was getting 9-10kmpl in colombo city, and 13kmpl in crowed outstation so improving indeed. So word of warning, don’t bother with the injector cleaning unless you really think it needs one. Which i guess is when the EGR path is fully blocke that the car does not accelerate smoothly. First make sure you replace the spark plugs, and here again stick to originals as the after markets seems to cause problems, and avoid the platinum one if your car is the i-DSI model. Also replace the air filter regularly, as this impacts the fuel economy pretty heavily. Again aftermarket (VIC) sold all over Sri Lanka is not good enough, so get the original. However the VIC is 1/3 the price of the original OUCH. Reply Pingback: Is the City stealing Civic sales? - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum Axenz May 13, 2010 at 2:00 pm Hi, My Honda Civic EK3 CVT problem is wont engage any gear during cool start, If hit a gas it will be a big bang engage the gear. But after warm upto 30 mins its engage the gear but a bit bang. After driving 1 KM it normall. But if park after 2 hours it start again, so need to warm to 30min and so on. What do you think? Reply Maithri April 3, 2010 at 11:23 pm Hi, I have a 2003 honda civic, The engine check light started flasing on my dash board, and the car gitters when at slow rpm, specially after starting.Then when attached to the engine scaner the technitian told me that the two gearbox sensors are fused, and that i have to replace them, Can any one please tell me where can i buy these sensors and a garage where they can be replaced. Thanx in advance…. Reply wajih March 3, 2010 at 4:23 pm hmm my dad got problem with his jazz, his milage around 167k, he already change his gear box to 2nd hand, after few years, the problem come back, he go to honda agent, they said it cvt sensor, how to avoid this thing? Reply rayazmuthalif July 5, 2010 at 12:10 am From what i have checked with the local honda agent in sri lanka, the issue is clearly with the gearbox, and no sensor replacement has worked for this issue. However they are also now “unofficially” recommending the additive, since several clients have heard about the additive from this blog, and by word of mouth and have had success stories that has assured them the additive is good. In the event your dad is using a new gearbox, tell him to get the additive, and use it. The additive is best used when you change the gearbox (transmission oil), and is poured after you pour the gearbox oil. i had the guy pour 3 bottles of gearbox oil, and then add the additive before adding the last bottle of gearbox oil to ensure the additive was flushed into the gearbox Using the additive has improved the lifetime of the gearbox, and it could help an expensive repair. However being a honda fan i am very disgruntled+disgusted that Honda could not solve this issue when they had the model running for almost 7 years!! Guess the reason to use the normal auto gearbox in the US tells the story of the their own lack of confidence. Strangely they even used the same gearbox it seems on the much newer variants based on this fit/jazz which is the airwave and freed. I have read that the Airwave too has the same fault, which means they still have not resolved the issue. Reply Horton February 19, 2010 at 6:54 am I bought a honda fit with CVT last year 2009. After that i want to know more about CVT and I found your forum. I’m so disapointed that the salesman didn’t tell me the truth about this CVT problem. He told me or rather he con me that this is a new improve CVT, so should be better. Now I want to know is it possible to replace it to a normal 5AT, should the CVT give problem? If it is possible then what is the price of the normal honda fit 5AT? In actual fact, I believe that it is Honda design and research problem and Honda should take the responsiblity to replace honda CVT transmission to a 5AT transmission. If not Honda is telling the whole world that their product honda fit 2009 cvt car will only good till 100 to 150k km only. That is really a shame to Honda as a whole company.It also admit to the whole whole world how responsible Honda Chief in it head office really is. They produce a Fail product or rather their hondafit will be good till 100 to 150k km depent on your Luck. Reply rayazmuthalif July 5, 2010 at 12:18 am Hi Horton, In the case you have the 2009 model, the CVT on that model is not like the older fit, and is supposedly a manual gearbox with automatic controls, and hence the issue mentioned does not apply to your car The newer gearbox has been designed differently, however my research has shown that this gearbox is not as smooth as the older CVT, but it is trouble free (good news!). However the fuel economy of the new car in actual driving conditions is less than the older according to current user comments on forums. However i can’t substantiate this since i have not driven this car or owned this car. This of course is possible considering the car is slightly heavier and has as more powerful engine. Reply amir January 23, 2010 at 5:29 pm now i facing my cvt prob. mileage only 60k but im using my car almost 5 years. not used regularly n keep maintance by honda. tech says, have to change oil. already change but still has sound. now they say, need to replace mounting gearbox. aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Reply Ravi December 17, 2009 at 11:44 am Hi, Can anyone please answer to the question from Aizuddin? I have a similar problem. Please hep Aizuddin Says: November 28, 2008 at 8:41 am | Reply Hi, I’m a Jazz user in Malaysia. I’m facing this CVT issue right now. On highway, my RPM is not constant, it will keep rev up and down between 3 and 4. Sometimes when I’m on city driving, i will get stuck on a low gear and this is when the gear indicator will keep blinking (the “D” with greenlight). It is becoming worse now. I’m in the process of looking for a 2nd hand CVT gearbox to replace mine. Heard that Honda Malaysia is selling new CVT gearbox for rm26k ! That is a ridiculous price! Oh ya, before this problem happens to me, there is a small symptom showing that my CVT having faulty.. At first there was a small jerking whenever i started to move from a stop(traffic light, tolls) . I did change the CVT oil every 10000km . I even had it flush twice, but its not working. Reply Damanjit Singh November 29, 2009 at 12:38 am i am not sure what EGR valve are u reffering to. the only one i am aware of is the one fitted in the engine called for emission purpose. what does EGR valve in the gear box mean? is it located near the belt area? and was it available in the internation market as a retail spare? Reply HKINC November 17, 2009 at 3:58 pm Oh my soul! For about a year I was trying to find a solution for the CVT gear box issue. I drive a Civic RS. I get a growling sound at pickup but, not a jerk. As you all mentioned the agent’s first idea is to make money off of my sorry state and I became a victim of it. Agent told me to change CVT oil and a filter (located close to the back of the radiator). As advised by the Honda experts I changed the oil and later found out that I have done it before 8000KM. The issue was never resolved. So, I again went back to agent and they gave me two options 1. get rid of the car. 2. replace the CVT gear box. The following oil change was done at 15000KM. I will try out and keep you all posted. One more issue: Electronic Power Steering unit! Since Colombo city roads are similar to off roads, my rack has a huge rattling noise. I replaced everything in the front except for the EPS unit. I am considering whether to replace the whole unit. Please advice. Once I went to agent with the issue and they did a minor repair and forgot to fix the stabilizer bar links on both sides. I had to go back next day and had to complain to and we found out that links were hung on coil springs. Disappointing experience and some of my friends told me to complain to the management. I didn’t bother to do so since my effort would not bare any fruits. Reply nash24 October 17, 2009 at 7:25 pm hey, any idea where this extreme additive oil can be bought in SL? Reply rayazmuthalif December 20, 2009 at 1:22 am sadly i could not find anyone selling it here (surprisingly, considering they sell all the crap type of oils and not one that is actually useful). My friend’s car is working fine with no jerks after applying the oil, and its run over 6000K since the additive was put!!! So it does work like magic. Your best bet is to get someone to bring it down from singapore, or if you have contacts coming down from the US. Reply pal August 27, 2009 at 3:41 pm I have a Honda FIT 1330cc auto transmission and vibrates at start up and is very slow but once it starts there is no problem. kindly help Reply rayazmuthalif August 27, 2009 at 10:11 pm Hi pal, a few more updates on diagnosis based on personal experience. 1. Change the CVT oil and see if the problem is resolved, if you are lucky that should do the trick. 2. Another one reason for the judder which normal technicians sometimes think is the CVT failure is caused by the engine mount. I had the problem with the jerky start, and though the local Honda agent’s lead technician who seems to hate CVT gearboxes was quick to blame it as gearbox failure was later resolved when the mount was replaced. I did a fair bit of research and then found that the left side mount is prone to cracking quickly as it seems to be stressed more than the right side mount due to the transmission also adding stress. So take the car to a good garage or the agent and check if your left side engine mount has to be replaced. You should see the car get smooth immediately. 3. If you still have the problem then you are in trouble, and a solution that tested with a mate of mines car was to use the oil extreme additive and it worked like a charm. The car had a noticeable judder at the start though the odometer was just barely 60K. Once the additive was included and for good measure he also replaced his CVT oil the car is back to its normal running and excellent fuel economies. You need to pour 45ml of this additive, and though its an official solution it seems to do the trick (How it works and what it does, I have no clue!). 4. If the oil extreme additive also fails you will then have to find a technician who is willing to open the gearbox and replace the EGR valve, which is supposed to be the cause of the whole problem. However the agent’s don’t do this replacement (not sure why, as i know they do it for the Honda HRV CVT and the Honda Accord CF4 CVT over here). This might sort your problem. 5. Failing which sadly you will have to run with the jerky until the gearbox dies, or get ready for a huge cost of replacing the gearbox. Sadly Honda never provided a proper solution to its large Honda Fit/City/Aria/Jazz customer base on the CVT failure and quietly disposed the CVT gearbox in the new Fit and City models. Reply faza August 18, 2009 at 6:24 pm Hey, my car is a 2003 city with the same prob judder when accelerating . Just would like to know if you can mention who is your mechanic for cvt repairs? i too tried the agents they changed oil etc but no good. tnx Reply rayazmuthalif December 20, 2009 at 1:26 am Contact autozone, the car dealer in high level road. They know a mechanic who can fix the issue, as they bring a lot of Jazz and City vehicles from singapore. Since these vehicles would have been used in city driving conditions they tend to get this problem even during the warranty period provided by autozone. I have heard of many friends who got cars from this place have their problem solved via this mechanic (place and person sadly unknown). However if you can get the oil down it will sort the problem out without any hardware level fixes Reply satish deo April 10, 2009 at 11:53 pm Have a workshop in Mumbai,India. I have a Honda City on transmission repair at my workshop. The car come up with jurks as i try to gas it for power.So far have not recieved any complients on honda city CVT.As with regular clients we have been replacing transo fluid at 10k with normal transo fluid.can any one help with repair manual.I have chked the electronics on this box which has no problem with the actuation program run thu my dignostic scanners Reply Tony April 2, 2009 at 10:22 am I’m now looking a buying a 2008 Honda City V-TEC that has the CVT. The car has 20,000 km and has been well maintained. I’m concerned about the longevity of the CVT, which is why I found this site in a search. Any thoughts on the long-term issues with the transmission or the car? I’m in Thailand if that makes a difference. Thanks. Tony Reply Ching February 11, 2009 at 9:13 pm Hi, it seems like many of us from Malaysia being conned by Honda. I drive a Honda Jazz CBU Japan, and it has the same problem here. Initially the jerk’s interval was only intermittenly. When I complained to Honda service center(Tmn Tun) during warranty period, they ignored my complaint and mentioned they have tested my car without any jerk. These guys are good in sweeping the problem under the carpet for Honda. Now the jerk is getting worsen from last few services( They have charged and changed the gear oil for me 3 times within 80k km). The worst thing is the warranty period is over. The jerking happens almost everytime during 1500 rpm. Honda is charging me USD7,000 in Malaysia for changing a new gearbox. They are very unprofessional, when I called honda about the pricy charges, they advised me to sell my car!! This is so irresponsible, not mentioned my car is fully maintain and service by them. My recommendation to Honda owner, do not service your car in Honda agent after warranty period. They are so pricy and no privellege given to you when problem arised. To those who planned buy a new Honda, please consider Toyota. Here is another poor guy who having the same problem: http://www.thesuzette.com/2009/02/say-no-to-honda/ Reply rayazmuthalif August 27, 2009 at 10:17 pm Sadly what you say is true Ching, all Honda Agent’s simply stick by the the rule that the CVT oil replacement is the only cure, and just say keep changing it regularly and you will be okay but if the problem comes up you have to change the gearbox. The use of oil extreme seems to sort the issue, and so does replacing the EGR value. Maybe the EGR valve replacement is a complex, and error prone hence the reluctance for Honda agent’s to carryout this repair. From what i have seen Nissan seems to be able to make sound CVT gearboxes that even work well in their large engined cars. Toyota has been using CVT gearboxes very silently on many of its small cars, and there has not be any notable issues raised on these cars, so maybe they work fine. The initial implementation with the EK3 Civic has proved to be fairly solid, though the Honda HRV CVT and the Accord CF4 both had reliability issues and needed repairs every 50-60,000km. However its the Fit/Jazz/Aria/City where Honda seems to have got it wrong, very wrong Reply Jed December 19, 2008 at 1:52 pm hii…that additive is called “oil extreme”? Reply rayazmuthalif July 5, 2010 at 12:03 am yup thats what it is called Reply upul November 28, 2008 at 2:42 pm Hi … I drive a Honda Civic ES8 – VTi/CVT 2000/1 model. Averages about 10Km/l in driving within Colombo city -where my most of travelling is concentrated. Lately I get a noise -similar to a warped wheel rubbing against cover.. This is not that noticable from outside, but faily audible inside the car. I don’t feel any other issue – no jerks, no issue in pick up/consumption etc.. When I checked with the local Honda agents – they were quick to point the issue was due to work done by third parties… But changed the tune after learning that I have done all the servicing through them. I must mention that I am very dissapointed with the expertise the local agents have – they are only good at replacing parts. After going though a check (for of course which thay gave me a nice bill) they confirmed that the noise is coming from the gear box -advice was to just ignore it – as any effort to touch the gearbox would be very expensive (which could be of course true). Any advice on this on the cause & possible solutions would be greatly appreciated. (I have been regulary changing the CVT oil as recommended. I noticed this noise somewhere in September – last CVT oil change was in May) Thanks… Reply rayazmuthalif December 15, 2008 at 8:36 am Hi upul, Sorry for the delay in response, yes the standard answer the Sri Lanka honda agent has is they don’t touch the gearbox, and recommend complete transmission unit replacement. This is a sad story, when in reality the CVT gearbox belt can be replaced. I believe the issue is that the local agent does not have trained resources to do this, and they do not want to burn their fingers as they need to provide a warranty for their fixes. They however have the training to repair the CVT gearboxes of the EK3 Civic, HRV and Honda JDM CF4, as they did bring these vehicles down for a short stint as reconditions vehicles over 5 years ago and presumably they also got the training to maintain these vehicles. However i know of place call AutoZone who are among the leading bunch of car importers from Japan and Singapore. They currently provide warranty for their vehicles, and they have got some mechanics trained to replace CVT gearbox parts. It might be worth getting your vehicle checked up from their mechanic. The next thing i can recommend is the oil extreme additive that is very popular in Singapore based on the forums (i have not tried it yet, but i am hoping to very shortly as a preventive step to keep my gearbox from any problems). I checked with the local agent, who as usual was lost on the subject but they had actually used it for one customer who had brought the additive, but were unable to trace the chap to see how successful it was. Shocking they actually indicated that it would be a good idea to use it, so there maybe some truth in it. Remember Honda are not the CVT specialist, that goes to Nissan who have a lot more complex and stronger CVT gearboxes. Reply Alan January 18, 2010 at 5:34 pm Could anyone tell me where I could buy this extreme oil additive in Singapore rayazmuthalif January 20, 2010 at 3:56 pm Hi, I got it from singapore through a friend of mine. The address is Buddy Club 712B Gelyang Road Tel: (065) 63841239 Fax: (065) 67498066 http: http://www.buddyclub.org email: enquiry@buddyclub.org Aizuddin November 28, 2008 at 8:41 am Hi, I’m a Jazz user in Malaysia. I’m facing this CVT issue right now. On highway, my RPM is not constant, it will keep rev up and down between 3 and 4. Sometimes when I’m on city driving, i will get stuck on a low gear and this is when the gear indicator will keep blinking (the “D” with greenlight). It is becoming worse now. I’m in the process of looking for a 2nd hand CVT gearbox to replace mine. Heard that Honda Malaysia is selling new CVT gearbox for rm26k ! That is a ridiculous price! Oh ya, before this problem happens to me, there is a small symptom showing that my CVT having faulty.. At first there was a small jerking whenever i started to move from a stop(traffic light, tolls) . I did change the CVT oil every 10000km . I even had it flush twice, but its not working. I love my Jazz but the CVT is giving me a headache!! Reply Saleyana November 27, 2008 at 10:33 am Hi, I am owner of the CITY from Malaysia. This issue of CVT gear box worried me becoz my mileage ia already about 114K. What should I do to avoid the CVT failure that can cost me a RM? Should I aak the Service Centre to change the belt? clean up the censor? Any sugesstion? Reply rayazmuthalif December 15, 2008 at 8:42 am Well based on forum research there are Honda Fit/City owners with mileages over 200K who have not had any failure in the gearboxes. However the wear and tear of the gearbox is usually far greater if you are running a lot within city limits where the stop and go type of driving really strains the box. So i am not sure what is your driving pattern. However if you vehicles is currently at 114k and still doing smooth, make sure you replace the CVT oil at 15K intervals. Further i am sure you might be able to find some store in malaysia which sells the oil extreme additive (make sure the store is a genuine one) which is said to improve the smoothness and longevity of the gearbox. However i also noticed that the warranty period for CVT gearbox for new vehicles had been increased from 5 to 7 years and would be worthwhile if you checked if that covers your vehicle as well, since that should atleast cover your CVT gearbox part cost in the event you have a situation that necessitates a gearbox change (though we would prefer that no such change is necessary!) Reply rayazmuthalif November 5, 2008 at 5:50 am Hi Mastanauv, Honda AT gearboxes have a good history, as most of the direct imports in my country by the agent skip the CVT and gets the normal AT boxes as they run with no issues. The CVT failures is partly due to the technology where the belt does wear out, and though the City/Fit/Jazz is harped as a city car, the wear and tear in heavy traffic has caused the belt to fail in far shorter intervals than what Honda seems to have planned for. The constant stops in traffic, where the wait is not 20-30 secs, hence the need to shift to N (neutral) means the belt is constantly under heavy duress. The fact that honda has moved away from the CVT for the new Fit (and maybe the City) to manual with auto shifts shows they have understood this problem. However the use of CVT in small cars is quite common in Japan, as other cars such as the Nissan Cube also feature the same technology. However in addition to the technology, a big problem as mention is that people mistake the CVT for a normal auto gearbox. Many there use the normal ATF oil (Honda code – ATF-Z1) for the gearbox which results in the breakdown. The Honda CVT oil (Honda code – CVTF or similar CVT specialized oils) must be used in order to increase the livespan of the gearbox. Being more careful on the shifts of the gearbox is another common recommendation, but i can’t see the logic of one having to stomp your foot on the break and keep the car on drive (D) at color lights being a practical solution! Reply mastanauv November 4, 2008 at 11:59 pm I am surprised how sensitive is Honda City AT/CVT to failures ( is it CVT or something else) Also anyone n=knows which sensor needs cleaning or replacement for jerky drive? Also what CVT Oil make is best for honda city automatic transmission? Also it is horrifying to read so many people reporting issues on CVT!!! Reply Jed November 1, 2008 at 8:37 am what is the name of the oil maybe in malaysia we can get it? Speaking of the belt can we actually replace this belt as often as we like? thanks a million Reply rayazmuthalif October 21, 2008 at 9:39 am One good site which provides a very active set of subscribers who seem very keen on discussing jazz/fit upgrades and troubleshooting is “http://forum.sg-fit-jazz.com/viewforum.php?f=29&sid=8c52426139a6228e4b566214c090a611″. The technical issues section is a gem. Here you see that owners in Singapore have started using an additive called “Oil Extreme” which is also sold in US. This product is poured into the CVT oil during each change (a small quantity) and it seems a lot of user have managed to resolve their jerk issue which then transforms to a busted gearbox in long term. Using the additive before the jerk issues have come has enabled owners to avoid this problem. Unfortunately we don’t have any dealers locally and i want to get this product as it might help all Fit/Jazz users. Another fact that identified is that the Jazz (and the Sports Fit) which comes with the 7-speed gearbox with manual change is more prone to failure, mainly due to the higher wear and tear on the belt. So while the 7-sp might allow improved smoothness and responses, the downside it seems is the faster failure of the gearbox. So that makes the 5-sp version a lot more safer, though users who drive the car on highways may be far better of with a 7-sp. Reply Jed October 18, 2008 at 8:18 am hi all i m a jazz user in malaysia, clocked 75km changed CVT oil at every 8km… once every 20 km do flushing, meaning that; change once 3.5l go drive a few km and change a fresh new bottle of 3.5 litre again. gives you a satisfying drive….but very disappointed to note all the comments on how useless this gearbox is. anyone got any proper idea to convert to manual and the ecu? pls help Reply intermilan September 4, 2008 at 3:33 pm hi, not a honda CVT user and not a fan of it either. one glaring fact is that for the new jazz/fit launched in malaysia, honda has ditched the CVT g/box and welcome back the old automatic gearbox. heard this will be implemented for the new city too. cost cutting is one reason that i can think of. what cost? i’m not sure. it’s either the cost of: 1. the replacement gearbox due to expensive and high-rate of under warranty replacement. 2. new g/box in a brand new car (CVT more expensive than standard auto box). so use old auto box = better profit margin. or both. Reply rayazmuthalif August 14, 2008 at 4:26 am So that confirm my belief that the local vendor opts for the easy (and very much more expensive option), which is very sad. Wow 12-13km/l in the city, is this the ES3 or the EK3 Civic? I used to have a Civic RS ES3 before with manual and could not get more than 9km/l, and i guess it also means my driving style might be too aggressive I have noted in the Fit if you can keep the acceleration slow, the economy meter hovers around 13-16km/l, but within colombo city its very hard to keep a stable speed due to the constant stops for road bumps, traffic lights, vehicles that cut across (nobody really keeps to the lanes, specially the buses), and the traffic. My friends who also have Fits (and Jazz) who drive from out of colombo city and come to work report mileages of over 11-12km/l. Sadly i have not driven out of colombo city, so i cannot confirm what economies are possible. Reply Dulinda August 6, 2008 at 9:03 am I also faced same issue with my Honda civic RS, as honda agent in sri lanka does not know much about the CVT gear box. they simply said to replace the gear box. but the local technician who help me to repair the box by replacing one sensor. good point is, with 1.7Ltr engine and CVT gear box, car has 12-13km/Ltr fuel consumption in colombo city. Reply DAMANJIT SINGH(INDIA) November 27, 2009 at 7:04 pm i have a i dsi CVT honda City which has done 1,36,000 Kms. the problem i am facing is the car would jerk when in driving.now the car doesnt move forward for 20-25 mins with the D light blinking. but it moves in reverse.pls help. what sensor did u change Reply rayazmuthalif July 14, 2008 at 6:53 pm Any idea what kind of mileage one should get from a Fit (1330cc) when its run in a 80% city traffic condition? I get around 9-9.5 km per liter under such condition with the AC switched on (at the lowest setting). Reply rayazmuthalif July 14, 2008 at 6:50 pm A top up of CVT requires around 3.5 liters, and the CVT oil comes in 1 liter bottles over here. The total cost locally is around $55 for the oil (minus labor) Reply billy tan July 14, 2008 at 12:54 pm Hi, here in Malaysia, i heard alot about the problems u mentioned. I wrote to Honda M’sia, they just simply said not to worry. THAT reply really worries me coz i’m driving 1 myself for the last 3 yrs. Immediately i had the cvt oil changed & i really noticed the difference i.e. improved power & smoother gear change. 3rd party cvt oil (Eneous / Nippon Oil) supplied to Honda as OEM. Guess to be on the safe side, i’m changing the cvt oil every 30k km or so, tho i don’t get stuck in traffic much. Looking on the bright side, this car really gives excellant mileage compare to, whatever thats worth comparing. cheers, billytan Reply Miguel July 8, 2008 at 9:55 pm Interesting info. Thanks for sharing it. Any idea on how expensive CVT oil change can be? 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